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Tell us your vision for hydrogen

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mauser
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Joined: 03/30/2010

Hi!

We're looking for your opinion on the future of hydrogen. What's your vision? What features are really important? It would be nice to get your vision in a small statement, about 5 sentences.
Thanks for your help!

gabriel
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Not too long ago, wolke asked users what they wanted in future Hydrogens. Here's a link: http://www.hydrogen-music.org/forum/index.php?action=show_thread&thread=1090&fid=2&page=1.

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

I like many I'm sure could list many many many features that Hydrogen needs in order to be any where near as adaptable as the many other feature rich Audio Programs out their.

personally I wish a programmer/s with enough spare time and devotion would take the hydrogen program and Develop it! get it moving! evolving! adding features requested by popular demand!.

'What features are really important?'

The most important feature any software can have is a highly productive & active development team.

Many free software programs achieve this.

Why can't Hydrogen?

mauser
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Joined: 03/30/2010

You're free to join the team and make it more productive! Beeing not a programmer isn't an excuse, we could need everyone.
Thanks for your help!

djembeing
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Joined: 10/13/2011

Midi Mapping needs help. 

I would like to use Hydrogen in a live setting to trigger samples and patterns with an electronic drumkit.  I've been successful so far but the midi mapping is aggrivating. 

Maybe an alternate display where the user could assign (to be visible) only the channels that they have a pad for.  Maybe arrange them in a position that represents the edrum kit physically (drag and drop on a blank canvas.)

 I'm thinking a box for each midi note containing the NAME of the pad controlling it, what the pad does (trigger sample, play/stop pattern, etc), the name of whatever sample(s) is loaded, a midi in indicator light, a label of the midi note name/number.  Volume control. The box could also allow the user to change the color, drag the box around (undockable) and save as a trigger template.

It'd be like the instrument rack and the mixer combined but you can undock each channel on the mixer and hide the ones you don't use.

There maybe another application out there that does stuff like this but I've been through several and Hydrogen is the closest to what I need.  

jarrodmacias
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Joined: 03/25/2014

Hydrogen, a vast subject. I do not have any vision about hydrogen. But I am looking forward to hearing more about it.

TheMack
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Joined: 11/05/2014

Hey guys. As a low life, no money having "musician" I just want to express my utmost gratitude. This program is fuckin amazing. Sure it sometimes sounds synthetic but spend some time mixing and doodling, give it a run though some fx programs and whabam! A kick ass sounding rock and roll whamajam drum sound for your cheesy ass glamriffs. And its FREE... by Odin its fuckin FREE!!!

I´ve been using some old ass version of HG on my old ass eMac (yes "e"Mac... and its 10 yo and beutyful) for making demos for my band. They love the sound, I love it and my mom´s´a big fan. I hope to share some lame/kick ass songs with all of you soon. Thanks again. (Scuse t´lish, I was born where they use Ðð) 

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

What I can do is give Hydrogen some promotion.

So the next song I make and release with hydrogen I will upload it onto jamendo with a free license and use the hydrogen image as the songs cover.

I guess people simply don't want to spend too much time in program development / manual writing etc unless their getting paid to do it.

Have you explored the 'paypal' donation option?.

mauser
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Joined: 03/30/2010

Hi!

What do you mean with "have you explored the paypal donation option" ?
Thanks,
Sebastian

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

A possible way to to help make Hydrogen the program it can be is by using pay pal donations to fund development.

In a ideal situation this should be done with voluntary donations.Hydrogen is a learning tool and the more learning tools/information is freely available to a community the more intellectually wealthy the community will be.This can only be a good thing for it is ONLY intelligence/the ability to understand information that makes us human in comparison to what we humans would class a animal.

Anyway back onto the what would be the best way of funding such a promising project such as hydrogen.

Naturally people will donate money if they see physical/programming evidence that their contributions are paying someone to put their time into the development of hydrogen,

A voting system is the fairest and simplest method of finding out what the actual users of the software want from it and what direction they require it to move in.
So a pay per feature system decided through a 'user' vote could be a way forward.

But the only way such a democratic system will work 100% efficiently & effectively is that all the information/funds etc are open and transparent for ALL to see.This should not only include any money donated but also programmer time spent on achieving a particular goal weather it be a new feature or manual writing, everything has to be readily & easily accessible to view .

In Today's world it is fair to pay someone to do something you either can't do your self ( because you choose not to learn) or don't want to do your self.

It is not fair to manipulate information/make it closed/hide it/copy right it in order that others do not have the choice but to pay you to access this information.<< That is a system based on corruption.

So once a basic and simple Donation system has been thought out and decided upon then all is needed is a pay-pal account.

Money=programmer time=new features=happy users=BETTER MUSIC :-)

Personally what I would do is link the paypal donation from a song I made with Hydrogen that was on jamendo to the Hydrogen paypal account.SO actually using the music to pay for hydrogen's development ,

But you will only find out if any system will work until you put the theory into practice .

So can you programmers give Hydrogen more time if you were receiving some funds to do this.Then maybe you could decrease workload in another area of your life in order to increase the work done on hydrogen.

Finally as a 'vision' of what I 'd like Hydrogen to be is basically what it already is.A drum machine!.
Simply add more features to simplify editing/music production and more features that help in the production of DRUMS N RHYTHMS :-) .

And just as important as the programming, someone writing/updating the manual so the information on how to use the new features are easy to find. <<< The main flaw with many 'free' computer programs is users giving up with them because of lack of easy to find information on how to use them.

Not having a up to date manual is like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing! << programmers doing work that many will never bother using!

And that's the main reason I believe why windows is still dominating the market.Microsoft programs may be closed source but at least their manuals and how to use the programs are open source, unlike many linux programs.

wolke
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Joined: 03/30/2010

hi ib1,

i just work on hydrogen just for fun! nothing more and nothing less.
i try to develop h2 in the way i think its mostly useful for ME.
so, i feel totally freedom. and i don't understand this bored comparisons with commercial software.

also, where is the problem, if you can get free and clean software (no spyware and so on), to spend a bit of your personal time to learn (find out by doing) how a software works.

i don't like statements what software have to do and what not. especially if its open source software.

thank you that you make a song and collect donations. but personally i am not interested to do any work in a direction which money dictates.
e.g. the ardour donation system. this is for my free feeling something like a prison with mony or paypal donations bars. uarg.
i am happy if somebody spend money for the work we have done. but i dont want to have mony for something i have to do in future here.

wolke

mauser
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Joined: 03/30/2010

Hi!

Money is definitely not the answer in this case... It might be contraproductive as well, since people might think "why should i write this patch for free if XY gets money for similar work?"

It may be good to have an independant "fond" or something to collect donation for things like travel costs if someone is planning to present hydrogen on a linux expo or something similar. But besides that,
i don't understand how money could help us now. What we really need are people who are willing to help in a constant manner.

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Fine whatever you guys do whatever your going to do.

I just wish someone who was a programmer had some 'free' time to use adding some basic features to hydrogen.

But 1 more question.

How long has Hydrogen been in development?

And why then in such a length of time hasn't it yet got many of the very basic editing features such as 'Undo' etc etc etc.

Now this question is not aimed @ any programmers, because I thank every programmer that puts in his/her free time into a free program such as hydrogen.And I add my peace of free time with free music to the wealth of the internet community.

But the lack of response on this thread alone shows that the Interests in Hydrogen isn't as popular as many other programs.
Sure numbers are not everything but is hydrogen in danger of becoming just another outdated peace of music software that only the 'die hard' fans still use out of some nostalgic past dream of what hydrogen could of been with the right kind of production team.

Unless hydrogen evolves @ a faster pace than I have seen over the last year it will become a FOSSIL .

Maybe this thread should really be asking?

Programmers! Tell us your vision for hydrogen and when do you think you will have the time to to get near to that vision?.

Again please do not take this as negative feedback because I use Hydrogen and will be releasing a track produced with it and Rezound soon.

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

To quote"

i just work on hydrogen just for fun! nothing more and nothing less.
i try to develop h2 in the way i think its mostly useful for ME.
so, i feel totally freedom. and i don't understand this bored comparisons with commercial software.

also, where is the problem, if you can get free and clean software (no spyware and so on), to spend a bit of your personal time to learn (find out by doing) how a software works.

i don't like statements what software have to do and what not. especially if its open source software.

thank you that you make a song and collect donations. but personally i am not interested to do any work in a direction which money dictates.
e.g. the ardour donation system. this is for my free feeling something like a prison with mony or paypal donations bars. uarg.
i am happy if somebody spend money for the work we have done. but i dont want to have mony for something i have to do in future here."

----------------------------------

Thats fine though I don't see why both way can't work!

All I am doing is voicing ways/options/ideas so that the USERS may get some of the features they want from hydrogen.

This thread is entitled 'tell us your vision' and that's what I gave my ideas.

Instead of asking for features that could of been done a year ago and getting the 'why don't you help then' response.

The truth is I'm not a great fan of spending too much time on computers.

I'm a huge fan of music :-) and that's what 90% of the time I use a computer for.

But some people do enjoy programming :-).

Either way enjoy the music :-)

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

My vision for Hydrogen is a program that will wake me up in the morning with a fresh cup of tea and a nice smile.
As I wake up into the Hydrogen world without violence or ignorance or prejudice or boy bands or any such nonsense I am reminded that this world would not of been possible were it not for hydrogen, water
Or gravity,fire,dust,clouds,sunshine,rocks,wood,the rule of physics,oxygen,iron oxide,stars.

This world evolved without beliefs , tv,cars,plastic,newspapers,politics,money,wars,shampoo,combustion engines,religions, computers , icecream, time, for all these things were made or made up by human beings using their brains,a organic processing/sensing tool given to them @ birth by nature.

As I go to sleep I will be fully aware that when I wake up I will awaken because of 1 force or movement.

RHYTHM

Hydrogen enables me to make Rhythms and as such helps me shape my life :-) .

wolke
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Joined: 03/30/2010

" "
/*
*
*
*
*
*
*
* April showers bring May flowers.
*/
" "

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

only if you live @ a location away from the equator that gives you seasonal weather.

ib1
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Ok I've had a little more time to think what I'd like from hydrogen.

I like how Hydrogen is clear and straight forward to use without all the clutter of features I wouldn't use.The only way to keep it that way is either to have different branch's to suit different styles of music genres or have a clear direction of what hydrogen is.

At the moment it is a Drum machine & I feel it's feel it should stay as a drum machine.

Though I'd like it to also have features that make it a Advanced Drum machine/ simple sequencer, so as to be able to produce a entire track just with hydrogen.<< though I do that now besides a Audio editor.

Nothing Bloaty just some minimal yet effective features to get the job done.

I.E - piano roll for the drum samples &/or linkable to some synthesiser plug-in architecture - LADSPA ?or whatever is the current and simplest way to get some basic synthetic sound structures such as strings and bass simply onto a drum track,

Being able to assign any number of individual LADSPA effects to a sample/drum track instead of the current 4 only effects to any track option.Or if this is too difficult to program double the number of effects to 10.

A minimal featured for now ,but 'real time' non destructive sample editor so as to alter sounds on the fly without changing the original sample.

These 3 features alone will transform hydrogen's producing ability & enhance hydrogen as a advanced drum machine.

Now I could go for a more complex set-up and use jack transport to hook up another application with piano roll and send anywhere chain Effects.I could also use a sample editor though non of these would really make 'real' time producing effective.

Add features to make it simple to alter or add sound whilst the music is playing.

By concentrating on these key elements turn hydrogen into a first class beat machine :-) .

Then you will attract allot of the Dance/electronic music community and their a dedicated bunch when it comes to music.

All this can be achieved as well as improving features for when hydrogen is synced with a midi drum controller.<<< Something I haven't yet used hydrogen for.

nitro
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Joined: 04/17/2010

2 ib1:
may be i dont understand something of previos stream(sorry for bad english),
but i think the drum machine must be drum machine, NOT a HARVESTER.
i mean string(bass guitar) and synth's must be in separate program, not in.
Hydrogen should not become the monster.
and what if somebody dont like a strings/synths in Hydrogen, they say "what is the ..., no, i use Hydrogen just a drums, for string/synth enother program"
man, "One task - one application"(but doing the operation well), unixway as it is.
BUT, you give some good idea about undo/redo: - snapshots(NOT "save").
we do some variant of song,
do "snapshot",
do something changes in song,
do snapshot,
do something changes,
and switch snapshots compare it.

Dr. Clock
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Accelerando and decelerando from one point of any pattern to another
from any tempo to any other tempo,
but I can't help but question if there could be problems if used unwisely,
but it would be useful.

And although already suggested being able to select different
tempos for different patterns.

And also maybe have a higher number for time signatures,

36 would be cool for what I would like to be able to do,

but I understand most people don't care, but I would be very happy

for the time signatures to be as high as 36.

O, crazy Dr. Clock,

Anyway here is my myspace:
www.myspace.com/polyrhythmclock

GodLikeCreature
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Hi,

I think looks are all important as well.

I use Hydrogen and am aware of its limitations, but still consider it a very good program with lots of potential. If we push it so it gets more users/followers, support will naturally follow.

In all honesty, I believe the weakest spot in Hydrogen today is its looks.

When a user finds out about Hydrogen, be it in a Forum or wherever, s/he will maybe come visit the Hydrogen site for a look at its features, screenshots, etc. The first encounter with both the site and the application looks... amateur.

I am no expert developer, but I think I can help with web design. I think Hydrogen should have a sleek website, less crowded with information, more clear and to the point, with high quality images. Something that makes new users interested and atracted.

The same goes for the the GUI. I think the application would benefit from a redesign, something that makes it look sharper. I think I could maybe help in that department as well.

As far as functionality, my only comment is about something that usually drives me nuts!!... Please, please, please, get rid of the knobs, or at least allow for text fields on each parameter, so it can be set by typing its value. For example, dealing with EQ, track volume, even setting up samples for an instrument is a pain in the ass... That should all be doable via typing.

Anyways, not sure how to get involved, so please contact me on ultrachem@gmail.com, or let me know who I should get in contact with.

Thanks

wolke
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Joined: 03/30/2010

that sounds great.
and yes in moment, maybe as you see, everything is outdated. there are no information about new release 0.9.4, no screen shots and so on.

a website redesign would be great! but the situation here is a bit unclear. also, we heard nothing from comix since six weeks. he is the main developer and has access to the website.

your are very very welcome here. i think its a good idea to contact the developer mailing list.
subscribing to hydrogen-devel list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hydrogen-devel

there everything can handled.
svn access and so on.

GodLikeCreature
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Hey!

I sent a draft animation that I had been planning to use for a new, more modern and sleeker logo for Hydrogen.

Unfortunately, it seems my idea had no backing, nobody replied to my proposal, so I guess I will just drop it.

At least I tried! :-)

Thanks

sodasound
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Joined: 04/17/2010

I am working on a setup which uses my netbook (for now) for live looping including synths. Ignoring the processing limitations of netbooks, it would be nice if the interface design included an awareness of live-performance needs.

This could possibly be implemented by creating a performance-mode, in addition to the existing composition mode. In performance, there is little need for the pattern editor or instrument editor, as an example. This could possibly reduce the overhead from interface rendering (I don't know).

What I wish for: 1) Learn MIDI bindings/Keyboard bindings; 2)Create Buttons/bindings to switch focus between the pattern-editor, song-editor and mixer windows 3) Use "page-buttons"/bindings to shift between sections of patterns, and sections of the mixer, because using scroll-bars during performance is slow and awkward. 4) Allow grouping of mixer channels, for control from a MIDI interface with faders. 5) Allow mouse-wheel scrolling in the pattern-editor and song-editor.

I've never seen anyone do this, but it would be too-cool: create a control-hierarchy for MIDI in which a key-binding selects a pattern or mixer channel, and then a MIDI binding or group of bindings is switched to allow triggering, muting and fader-control of the pattern(s) or mixer channel(s).

thijz
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Joined: 04/17/2010

midi learn is (to some extent) already available in the 0.9.5 :
goto the tools-settings-midi tab and here you can press the (red dot) 'rec' button and then hydro will wait for midi input. then you can link this midi event to a certain action.
you can also shift-click on a gui element and the midi learn dialog will pop up

see http://www.hydrogen-music.org/forum/index.php?action=show_thread&thread=1218&fid=6&page=1

grtz
Thijs

ben_Zene
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Hello all,

My vision for hydrogen is that it will be the sequencer of choice for modern producers.

I have posted an experimental modded GMKit with bass solfeggio samples (single layer per note at the moment) for download on my site http://listen.to/benzene.

This h2kit has not been tested yet. I would like to hear from anybody who uses it with comments, suggestions and ideas to improve it.

Downloads are available at the bottom of the front page.

bZ

thijz
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Joined: 04/17/2010

@GodLikeCreature :
hi ! i'm totally with you about the website design and incomplete/outdated content. I have also launched a modest hint on the devel mailing list to offer my help, but no reaction :-(
recently there was someone (wolke was it you? mmm, cant remember) that posted a link to a site he had made (using drupal) > looked good to me, or it could be a (new) start (?)

i must say that i feel like a bit of a traitor writing all this (i mean who am i to be commenting on the work of the creators of hydrogen :-s) but anyway, i still feel that something should be done about the site

about the gui design my opinion is not that strong. i'm quite happy with the gui design, but you know what they say : 'there's always room for improvement' yada yada ;-)

you should subscribe to the devel mailing list and post your offer to help with the site design !! dont just give up and walk away :-(

i for one am in favor !

grtz
Thijz

mauser
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Joined: 03/30/2010

Hi thijz!

The problem is that we can't use your help at the moment - the current website is hosted on site which only can be accessed by comix. We are aware of that problem and therefore we're looking for an alternative, that's the reason why wolke built the drupal-based site. I'm trying to look for a way to convert the forum content to a drupal-forum at the moment, hope that it will be possible somehow. The new website will be based on a content management system so it will be easier for us to give other people the permission to edit parts of the website. And then every helping hand is welcome :)

thijz
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Joined: 04/17/2010

ok keep us posted on that !
is comix no longer involved in the hydrogen project, or just busy doing other stuff ?

bye

grtz
thijz

Comix
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Comix is still here..busy as hell in other projects :-D

--
comix http://comix.hydrogen-music.org

thcsquad
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Joined: 04/17/2010

A touchscreen interface / Android version would be a great way to attract people. Android tablets will explode in the next year, and touchscreens are perfect for drum machines.

The current interface is mostly fine, but a version built for Android would attract a lot of people who will be getting these tablets.

mauser
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Joined: 03/30/2010

Hi!

Android is (at this very moment) not a very friendly environment for QT-based applications. A QT-Port for Android (called 'lighthouse') is on its way, but i don't know if the other libraries we use are available for android, too. I'm interested in the use of hydrogen on tablets, but at the moment there is no platform that i could recommend. We will have to wait for more open, linux based tablets.

thcsquad
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Well, those exist too, although they don't have nearly the market that Android ones do. I have an Always Innovating Touchbook, which runs on an ARM processor. Its OS is a modified Xandros, and it also runs Ubuntu. As far as I know, the only obstacle to Hydrogen on this is the ARM processor.

Then there's the Joojoo, which as far as I can tell, runs a homegrown distro. It has an Intel Atom processor, so I think there's no obstacle at all for Hydrogen. I assume that if I had one I could just install Hydrogen and be off.

mauser
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Joined: 03/30/2010

Hey!

The arm processor is not a problem for hydrogen. There's even a debian package available for arm:

http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=hydrogen

Maybe there's an ubuntu package for arm, too..
But i can't say if the performance of the system is good enough. Try it out, it would be nice to get some feedback about hydrogen on a tablet!
- Sebastian

thcsquad
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Joined: 04/17/2010

I tried it out. It runs just fine, actually. Its certainly responsive enough to work well as a drum machine.

The touchbook, which is 8.9", is a bit too small to really comfortably use the default Hydrogen interface, at least without a stylus. It seems like it would be optimal to have it maximize and scale up/zoom in on each of the windows (pattern editor, song editor, etc) and treat them as tabs for a touchscreen device such as this.

fedyarov
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Joined: 04/17/2010

Alas Hydrogen still doesn't support direct usage of pretty cool drums from Freepats GUS patches or Fluid (R3) Soundfont2 banks available in Linux. It would be nice to add this support, they have pretty simple format of wrapped WAV samples, some with low/high/root tone frequencies to adjust the pitch (SF2 has many additional options, but they're not really important for drums). Alternatively you could add a dialog to select midi sequencer and its channel (external Timidity or QSynth) for an instrument, though that could cause wrong delays since some programs use buffering.

It would be useful to have a separate pitch setup for each beat of an instrument, just like we have for volume (and to have
separate pitch setup for the same instrument in different patterns of a song, e.g. in case of modulation). Actually with this and support of the above mentioned formats Hydrogen would turn into a powerful music editor, not just drum machine :).

Also the current system of using multiple drumkits in the same pattern via locking is inconvenient, it would be great if one could choose both drumkit and one of its instruments right-clicking the name of it in pattern editor (including blank instruments). Since we have only 32 slots, problems are probable when one locks some instruments, then pushes them up and loads another drumkit - not much space left in the upper part of pattern editor to keep the locked ones there. If a user keeps the locked instruments where they originally sit in their native drumkit, he can't access some instruments at the same position of the newly loaded drumkit - locked instruments hide (overlap) them.

GVerb LADSPA plugin support would be valuable as well. Reverberation is an important thing.

Saving songs in gzipped format would also be handy.

Sorry if some features are already implemented in fresher version.

Ruslan